chinesepod thoughts - or ‘how to make a charcoal mess out of burnt bridge-wood’
Not a week goes by that I’m asked about the old show. Correction - my old show. Show’s still going as well it should. It’s brilliant and revolutionized how languages are attained and absorbed. And I’ve put off penning my thoughts. Had put it off. Until a few things came to light these past few weeks.
For-the-record, I’ve never gone on-the-record about what happened, but shall. ‘Cause people ask. And they did someone wrong. Blatantly. So here goes.
My Exit
…was eminent. Gone were the good ole days of free beer in the fridge and everyone having no idea who did what. Not to say we didn’t get it done - we did. And had fun. Hell, more concept was conceived in the pub than in the boardroom and it was everything you read about in cool start-ups. The converted warehouse. The excitement. Late nights and early mornings. The risk. The mayhem. All of it. But with success came structure and that really killed what was had. It happens, I suppose - the need for someone to start counting the money going out. But what a drag. No more free beer. A timeclock. Someone who reviewed the timeclock and wore a tie. Squares - you know the type. They needed to make money, fair enough. But when I went from producing a show I was a part in starting to being also told to produce the corporate programs said suit brought in to help pay the bills, I walked. Walked under the announcement that it was becoming a ‘production house’. It did - but more on that later. I was asked back to continue doing The Saturday Show (and at half-a-million downloads a month, you can see why) I agreed. Purely for the money. A few months later I started making a whole lotta money (that sounds weird to even write), so I left. On good terms. Still am. Ken’s a big brother to me and Hank is one of the smartest men I’ve ever worked with. So that was it - ‘thanks very much’ and ’see ya at the pub’. All things good and all things fine.
Spanish/Italian/French/etc
…this is what I meant. Now - as stated, no one paved the road towards online learning more than we did. No one. I can show you obvious knock-offs and apologetic ones. There’s a reason we made Time Magazine’s Top 10 List. ChinesePod ‘coming from our studios in Shanghai’ along with the Chinese staff on board to help in a Chinese neighborhood with Chinese culture in China is what made it that. But ‘ItalianPod coming from our studios in Shanghai’ doesn’t seem to carry the same…oh, what word am I looking for here - ‘credibility’? No, that’s not it, because they had true speakers and the same approach, but it seemed…greedy, I suppose. But they have to make money and I understand that. ChinesePod, despite being flown into teach the CIA Mandarin wasn’t making anyone rich. So dowhatyagottado, I guess…it just seemed to cheapen it.
The Man
Said suit is the band promoter who tries to grope groupies by promising them backstage access (no pun intended). He began to stifle the creative flow there. With everyone. Trust me on this, I’ve heard it from them. The program director called me once to produce some much-needed openers/closers for them which I did. My policy being ‘you-give-me-that-pile-of-money-and-I’ll-give-you-this-cd’ meant he had to pay me out of pocket, as suit was somewhere out of town touring a bean farm or whatever. When suit came back, he allowed for the promos to be played, but told director that because he didn’t okay it, he wouldn’t get paid. He’s one of these guys. So PD left. Suit implements a ‘no free coffee’ rule for the staff of 40+. Now their last hope of bringing an edge to the show, [Dear] Amber has left. Gone. Sorry to break it to ya’ll but she has. So - It ain’t looking good. And here’s the kicker - as good as this is to learn a language, the economy is shit and people are starting to cut back on things. Now - you have a educational program with pop culture benefits and an amazing cast, it becomes a personal attachment and perhaps will make the cut. But without these, it could be deemed a ‘lose-able luxury’.
Now…the kicker.
They. Fucking. Stole.
This is what is comes to? God - I hope not. But they did. Here’s what happened. A friend of ours, of yours and mine, came to Shanghai with an idea. An idea for a new show for ChinesePod. He played it to them and they loved it. Told him to keep his phone on over the next few days. No reason why they shouldn’t have - it was a good show.
Then nothing. Silence. Then the ‘would love to but we don’t have the budget’. Fine. And fair play. They don’t have the money. That’s how a pitch goes. No hard feelings.
Then this (if you can’t see the link, it’s restricted to premium access so I ripped it and uploaded it again):
Didn’t see the dates? I’ll help you.
- ‘Radical Approach’ (remember the pitch? ‘no money’?) - uploaded on April 15, 2008.
- ‘The Radical Show’ (even stole the name? are you kidding me with this?!) - released on December 16, 2008!!!
To be honest - I’m fucking floored. It - despite its choices in suffocating surrogates - is a classy operation. It has huge potential and not just in this capacity. I remember Ken talking once about how he wanted to put basic Arabic onto mp3 players and send them off to our troops! It was this kind of thought and intellect that started this entire thing, but to stoop so low as to not only steal from a man who helped them along the way, but to not even change the title, it’s pathetic. As is the show, but that’s neither here nor there.
So that’s it - up until I saw that video, I was fine. If it weren’t for Ken and Hank, I’d still be teaching English. I have nothing but respect for them. That being said, whoever had even a finger in the release of this is a cowardly hack.
Shame on you.
Okay you’ve earned your beer for the day, off to the pub with ya (and you’d better...
December 26th, 2008 at 17:18
Hiya, folks! Frank Fradella here.
Boy, you gotta love him, don’t you? If you ever need someone to fight The Man or thumb their nose at authority, this is your guy. There’s no one else I’d rather have in my corner. That being said, allow me to expand on a few points here, because I still consider many people at ChinesePod my friends and you can’t paint everyone with the same brush.
I’ve spoken with John about the new show (which won’t be returning, by the way) and there may have been some parallel evolution there combined with some lingering subliminal mojo. I mean, if you are going to teach the characters, I remain convinced that this is the best way to do it. John’s been doing this kind of thing a lot longer than I have, and I’m sure he came to the same conclusions.
Still. There were similarities and I was irked, but I talked it out with John and he and I are cool. He was kind enough to let me know that they’re going to try their hand at teaching the characters again, and they SHOULD. Teaching Chinese is what they do, and thus far, for my money, they do it better than anyone. Hell, they taught me! And now I go to Shanghai and get slapped by all the pretty girls. What more do you want?
All things being equal, I also let them know that I thought I had a fine show and I’d be shopping it to other people who might have a use for it. ChinesePod may be the best game in town, but they’re not the *only* game in town.
And you, Aric, are a champion of justice, you are. Thank God there are no shortage of windmills in this world for you to tilt at.
December 26th, 2008 at 17:26
Frank,
Thanks for contacting me instead of jumping to conclusions. I alone am responsible for The Radical Show, and I did not and would not steal from Frank.
December 26th, 2008 at 17:27
then explain how it ended up with the same name.
December 26th, 2008 at 17:35
Amber has left???
She still owes me a beer!
December 26th, 2008 at 17:37
just had your beer with her in NYC - she sends her love.
still yet to hear how a show about characters with the name ‘radical’ is not a cut-and-paste from the previous show about characters with the name ‘radical’.
December 26th, 2008 at 17:41
Aric,
Do you know what a radical is? The pun is really not a huge leap.
Using radicals to teach characters is also not a new idea (and it’s still a good one).
December 26th, 2008 at 17:44
nope - not going to get out of it that easy.
you’re telling me that not once did someone think ‘wait - what was Frank’s show about the same thing he proposed to us 8 months ago called?’.
December 26th, 2008 at 17:50
Aric,
Yes, that’s what I’m saying. And it’s the truth.
Frank is a an all-around good guy, so would you believe him if he told you he didn’t copy a well-known publisher for the name of his show? Because I would.
My point is that these things happen, and it’s not always because people are thieves or liars. Frank’s not, and neither am I.
December 26th, 2008 at 17:55
John - you allowed a show, with the same approach (less produced) as his. You then named it virtually the same thing he did.
And now you come clean about not once taking into consideration someone you consider to be an ‘all-around-good-guy’? And then try to call him a hack?
He made a show - you made a copy of that show. Someone else wrote a book. Let’s not try and spin this.
End of the day - you copied his show (fair enough - if ya’ll didn’t have the money, then fine) and didn’t have the courtesy to a) ask him about the title or b) use your vast lexis to come up with something else.
These things do not just happen.
December 26th, 2008 at 20:01
Hey Aric, John and all peeps who I have met.
Before I waffle let me make something clear. I have no f*cking idea about that case and have nothing to do with it, just that the post kind of made me reflect on other stuff.
In Shanghai we are in an extreme neo-liberal business environment, that is, one based in the reality not the propaganda of it. Little people with no capital are abused and people with power and money can quote the rules.
This is going to sound a bit arrogant but what the f*ck, this is Aric’s blog and we used to have some good conversations about such stuff.
I ..yes, me, am a good writer. Really. I wrote a Drama that played in a festival that won an award, and then went on from there to study it at college and then do it as a job. I have skills. Aric himself has had first hand experience, for example, of me developing an idea, writing a well formated screen play … and then re-writing many times it based on his own and others’ feedback until it became tight and defined.
Until very very recently, in almost 8 years here, I have rarely tried to pursue writing in Shanghai despite many opportunities. And when I have, (for example, as a professional in house writer for Adventure Learning Channel last year) I have found that people are tw*ts. Just as Aric described they get all excited use you to create something that stands out and then as soon as the books are balanced start to treat you like an ars*hole and eventually push you out. Once they believe they have a handle on what you do, they start to cut you back, so to speak. And they steal everything you bring to the table.
Shanghai is a lawless dream for people in creative start ups. Every time I look into it here I get more repulsed. Things were worse in my first job here developing courses for English schools, but that’s another topic.
Anyhow, I now have an agent and what appears to be a new creative writing job with a great company on the horizon (at the third and final stage) and I came here originally to get away from it for a while anyway. So why am I complaining?
The problem these days is that creatives are mainly people with good technical skills in stuff like design or computers. There are very few people who can come up with strong concepts and communicate and develop them well into any medium ..ie a writer. And when those people are found they are often used and abused.
Blah blah blah.
But like Aric said. When it comes to meeting a strong competitor, or a shift in trends or a recession or whatever … people will stick to the one with the personal connection and the creativity, with the talent and strong ideas. Think of punk music - an utter rejection of technical competence and production values but a complete success because so many people identified with it on a personal level.
December 27th, 2008 at 03:36
Hmm… I’m not involved in or particularly care about the language wars but when I see two shows with the same name and then use the same character as their introduction piece, I’m more than a little suspicious.
Incidentally, that second show was painful to watch.
December 27th, 2008 at 06:38
ChinesePod makes its employees pay for coffee? Yeesh…
December 27th, 2008 at 23:25
it’s china, you and frank don’t have a copyright or patent on this show idea orvariant thereof, you certainly don’t have any rights to the idea of using radicals to learn chinese
get over it, and it wasn’t even that good an idea to begin with
December 28th, 2008 at 00:31
haha, john pasden would never steal. anyone who’s been drinking with him, or seen him hit on college students, or both, would tell you as much — john’s only goal in life is to “make the world a better place”. so, of course anyone that desperate for moralistic pussy would never, ever steal. that said, welcome to china. it’s a goldmine. therefore… there will be claim jumpers.
December 28th, 2008 at 01:25
Blimey. This has been re-posted at Sha-ist and, like, a lot of people will read my grumpy comment.
Hi, lots of people.
I had some bad experiences in old jobs and was venting. I’m sure some of you are fair to employees, at least now and again
December 28th, 2008 at 04:22
leelee - teaching characters is not a good idea?
chris - this wasn’t an attack on John. it was an attack on those who plagiarized. but him being a nice guy does not allow plagiarism.
andy best - you’re surprised that shaiist picked this up? Kenneth loves goss.
December 28th, 2008 at 07:38
Could you name any single thing from your “idea” that was remotely innovative?
Every Chinese textbooks for thousand of years has taught radicals. It’s the basis of the written language. Chinese dictionaries are organized by radicals. You can’t learn the written language without learning them. Hundreds of books and posts cover exactly the same material in exactly the same way.
Having no budget was just an excuse to say “whatever” we’re not going to pay you for a non-idea.
And the word radical as a (lame) pun has been used in just about every book on the subject.
I thought of the idea for rainbow skittles before they were out. I thought of a million web sites before they came out. I don’t get a royalty check.
December 28th, 2008 at 07:42
you’re missing the point.
yes, radicals are necessary when learning a language. but to take the same show, with the same name is bush-league.
December 28th, 2008 at 07:54
> you’re missing the point.
> yes, radicals are necessary when learning a language. but to take the same
> show, with the same name is bush-league.
I don’t think I’m missing the point. I watched both shows. Both are rather uninteresting attempts to teach basic Chinese 101 radicals in the standard fashion. Putting that on video is not an idea. Frankly both videos suck.
Just because you pitched it doesn’t mean it’s creative.
If you think no idea should be influenced by other ideas, you shouldn’t have copied the name of your show from “Chinese Characters: A “Radical” Approach” (see Amazon) or the other books and many chapters in western Chinese textbooks that use the same naming concept.
December 28th, 2008 at 08:04
Aric, sure they like the goss … but not when it hits close to home or friends. I’m still waiting on an official explanation on why Abe’s article on New Pants was pulled when much worse stuff is left on all the time.
December 28th, 2008 at 09:41
While I would love to have Frank’s creativity and production skillz improving the quality of every photo, lesson intro, existing show and as-yet-to-be-thought-of future shows on Chinesepod, I think EVERYONE here is missing the point.
Everything happens EXACTLY as it should.
Frank NOT being hired into a creative ‘no-fly zone’ is the best thing that ever happened to him. Does the world REALLY need Frank Fradella’s talents wasted on trying to ipodize Chinese Characters? Is the world served by a creative genius rehashing thousand-year-old, tried n’ trodden radical approach to character learning?
No and no. Ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffuck NO.
…and if you think either of those videos were painful to watch, try spending hours and hours trying to make chicken pie out of chicken shit in the editing room. I’d rather carve my eyes out with a bio-degradable spoon, I’d rather drink my own urine, I’d rather watch Oklahoma beat the Gato— what am I saying? oh yeah, what I’m saying is Frank, consider it a priviledge and an honor to have your request denied.
Serve the world in a grander way.
and Thank You Chinesepod for making the world a better place.
Frank and Aric, I love you both. You should send your ‘thank you’ cards to:
Suite A301, 2452 Wanhangdu Road
Shanghai, China
200051
No one’s at fault. John and Frank were pounding pavement poured long before either of them were born. Now, everyone gets to be exactly what they aspire to be.
-jonathan
December 28th, 2008 at 09:43
Alex N - now you’re an expert on videos? can’t wait to hear what you do.
and can you not follow this thread? we already went over the ChinesePod show on teaching characters with the name ‘radical’ in the title vs. the ChinesePod show on teaching characters with the name ‘radical’ in the title. you’re bringing up a book.
follow, please. and just give us a quick rundown on what makes you the authority on what sucks? I’m willing to bet you’re a troll from Shanghaiist, no?
December 28th, 2008 at 11:52
PROPS - several weeks ago I got a call out of the blue. It was some company in Shanghai asking about whether I was the official representative for a name they thought might be trademarked by us. YUP. I am. Yup, some completely unrelated company was trying to take it. Maybe it was all a scam. Who knows. But I REJECTED them.
There’s due diligence involved in things, especially in this day and age. Especially in a corporate environment. And just cause it’s fair. I think John was probably not so diligent. Ren and radical are pretty common, first characters people usually teach, so was it Frank’s idea or John’s? It’s a tough call, these are the challenges of the new age and I hate lawyers. The two have worked it out, so it’s done.
Then again, maybe John’s been in China a long while now, where Louee Bitton, Rol-x, and Star Money are common and nobody thinks twice about it. We expect more, from John…China. Maybe that’s not fair. Maybe nobody owns any property…heck..it is China. They are pretty clear on that concept. j/k.
*Note. John, you cut off the video at the best part, when the guy started to “handwrite” with one stroke the 人, teaching Chinese handwriting is a HUGE gap in SLA teaching for Chinese. Feel free to come up with your own take an approach to teaching that.
I have noticed that going forward Cpod is different. I don’t know how the previous open Creative Commons license hurt them before or would going forward, but it’s a change on new content that they’ve made.
*ChinesePod lessons 1-1127 only, MP3 lesson content is licensed under a Creative Commons 3.0 Unported license.
The internet loves the sun, let the rays shine.
Best to all.
December 28th, 2008 at 12:05
good points, actually.
but I need to be clear on something - this is not about the first lesson, per say. I wouldn’t have gone after CPod’s show had it just been that.
this is about a friend of the company coming to shanghai and pitching a show about teaching the characters. this show’s name was ‘Radical Approach’.
after turning down Frank’s offer (someone who’s been with them for years - and would not have been forgotten as emails were traded back and forth when this whole pitch was happening), they make a show about characters (fine) and name it virtually the same thing that Frank did months back.
all this without even having the decency to run it by the guy.
December 29th, 2008 at 00:27
@AlexN
according to John Pasden:
“You’ll notice we never use the word “radical” in reference to parts of characters (which are called 部件 (bùjiàn)). This is because both the word “radical” in English and 偏旁 (piānpáng) in Chinese are historically linked with archaic classification systems rooted in a need for dictionary organization. Computers are changing everthing, however. “Radicals” are no longer essential for looking up characters; we have copy-paste and handwriting recognition. This is where the 部件 (bùjiàn) concept comes in: deconstructing characters for understanding rather than for pure conventional classification.
And yes, it is sort of a radical concept”
If, as John Pasden says, the idea is so radical, then how could he not remember hearing the concept from Frank in the first place. If he truly came up with the idea on his own (or with the ChinesePod team), then wouldn’t they still clearly remember the concept presented by Frank? Obviously the idea was “stolen” and not thought up “independently” or on a “parallel track” as suggested.
Aric, don’t be intimidated into backing off your initial claims. The facts are clear. John and ChinesePod stole the show’s concept from Frank.
However, this doesn’t actually mean the show’s concept is radical or revolutionary. I think it’s pretty conventional and still incomplete as a learning method.
December 29th, 2008 at 03:18
Indeed I found your site from Shanghaiist.
That doesn’t have anything to do with the fact that teaching radicals on video is not something that can be “copied” or that using “radical” as a pun is clever.
Anyone creating a video podcast Chinese language program would eventually create a show on radicals, and using radical as a pun for it’s synonym is sickeningly obvious.
Additionaly, the shows in the example aren’t even similar in approach, other than that they teach the fact that they teach about the ren radical.
And why does it take an expert to say what sucks? The target market is casual learners, not experts. I am a casual learner. I found both videos to be pretty uninteresting.
December 29th, 2008 at 03:21
Synonym = homonym
December 29th, 2008 at 09:38
alex n - you’re proving my point about the pointless angsty banter that follows the shanghaiist crowd.
‘eventually’ doesn’t justify what happened.
feel free to comment to why you don’t like the shows, but keep the ‘this sux’ middle school graffiti to kenneth’s site.
December 29th, 2008 at 12:59
While teaching Chinese through radicals is nothing new, a weekly radical video show is an original idea. CPod, having been personally introduced to Frank’s video, has an obligation to ask for permission to produce a similarly themed show. The argument that radicals are commonly used to teach Chinese characters doesn’t hold any value here in my opinion. Whether, at the time of Frank’s pitch, the idea had already crossed the mind of someone at CPod or not, they produced their video a full 8 months after Frank’s. I’m not seeing any parallelism in development here.
On a side note… no free coffee??? Yikes.
December 29th, 2008 at 13:21
aaah yes, copies, plagiarisms and general piles of shit! I stand by Aric, this is clearly not a pat on the back for Frank from Chinese Pod, in fact it’s not a pat at all but rather a stab.
Alex N, you clearly miss the point, but seeing as you still have difficulty getting it, I’m going to put it in what is generally called a cretin’s-graph (at least in my books - and yes, it’s not so much a graph as a list, but hey, all is fair):
1. Frank goes to Shanghai
2. Frank meets people from Chinese Pod
3. Frank pitches idea for show on teaching foreigners ‘radicals’ to Chinese Pod people. Frank’s show is called “Radical Approach”, seeing as ‘radical’ refers to both the radicals in the characters and the approach taken - so smart!
4. Chinese Pod people tell Frank “Great idea, keep your phone on. We’re going to give you a call”
5. Frank’s phone stays on day and night, but silence. Meanwhile, back at the Chinese Pod ranch the dreadfully boring and unpalatable tie wearing number crunchers of Chinese Pod work for days trying to come up for a why to make Frank’s show (Radical Approach) a reality - because it clearly promises to work and probably bring in a whole lot of money when the show starts charging.
6. The number crunchers fail, seeing as their lives are generally depraved of any other action than discovering yet another way to work out Pi.
7. Frank flies back to the states sad at being turned down, but happy that the people at Chinese Pod knows about his idea and that maybe in the future, they might still use it, as he still considers them friends.
8. 8 Months later (hey look, the eighth point is actually about what happens eight months later - how smart!), Chinese Pod (now quite the leader in teaching foreigners Chinese and starting to make money as they charge for some of the pods) bring forth a video pod about learning Chinese characters, called “The Radical Show”, ‘radical’ here referring to both the radicals in the characters and the approach the show is trying to take in teaching them to foreigners….
“WAIT… WTF?? Wasnt’ there a show called “The Radical Approach” which was all about learning Chinese characters pitched to Chinese Pod just eight months ago??” I say whilst spraying coffee all over my computer screen and the vomiting up the rest of my stomach’s contents in my refuse bin due to the nausea induced by watching “The Radical Show”.
You see Alex, (and I do hope you were able to follow - being a dooch and all. I know it got a little bit complicated at around point 5, but hey… I believe in you) I don’t even work for Chinese Pod, hence I did not even get excited about the first show, but I still see that there’s something not quite right here.
This is Aric’s point (and I might be miserably wrong, in which case I’ll just give myself to egg Mcmuffins for the rest of my life and become an obese bastard shouting at the T.V. which isn’t even plugged in) is that Frank gave the good people at Chinese Pod this idea, they liked it but said they can’t use it. Later, the come and put out something that so closely resembles Frank’s idea that you might almost call them the Olsons - well not really, but even a dimwit like you should be able to see it!
So there you go. Kudos for standing up to these people Aric!!!
December 29th, 2008 at 14:15
AMBER left?! Is this for real?!?!
Shucks, didn’t know so much went behind Chinesepod… it’s like this illusion of a perfect workplace went poof.
December 29th, 2008 at 14:20
yeah - and I do need to apologize for that. I just hung out with her in NYC and she had decided to live there. I didn’t realize that she hadn’t mentioned this to her huge following so that makes me a bit of a dick.
I’m sorry.
ChinesePod was a fun start up, got (justifiably) big and needed to make money, meaning structure/budgets/etc. this part I don’t like but understand. the stifling of the creativity is disheartening. it’s something they need. something that works. I hope they (and I’m really only pinpointing a select few, not hard to pick ‘em out) open that back up as some of the ideas that were originally generated back-in-the-day could have been very, very big. and viral. and, most of all - things that would set them apart from any other language learning platforms.
December 29th, 2008 at 18:38
Thanks for your inputs Aric. I guess it’s all part of growing pains? As always, there has to be way to stick to the core and the identity of the product, such as Chinesepod. Once it gets compromised, then there it goes.
December 29th, 2008 at 20:10
Aric, I dread hearing your smug, smarmy voice at the end of every CPod broadcast. Your blog is the same toxic blend of self-pity and delusions of grandeur.
There are so many worthwhile causes. Why not turn your low-watt self-righteous fury on poverty, malaria or agribusiness? I agree with Frank about the value of taking a stand. But why not aim higher?
Your revolution’s over, Queen. The bums lost!
December 30th, 2008 at 00:04
I just got told off by someone who quotes The Big Lebowski.
December 30th, 2008 at 00:28
How about some behind-the-scenes info on the infamous, unnoticeable ‘link’ to TSS ‘extra’s page’, which appeared when V3 reared its ugly head. I’m assuming said suit was behind this as well? I always thought that link was Hank’s evil creation, however based on your post, I’m guessing it was the unmentioned of the threesome that was behind it and was actually mr. deep pockets himself, Steve-O.
Any thoughts on the CPod’s Sept. 1 paid subscription/termination of the Creative Commons licence and subsequent kicking of the Hanban in the nuts? I’m seeing this more as a desperation move than as actually being part of the master plan of CPod and its mutant siblings.
December 30th, 2008 at 00:35
ha. I actually forgot about that, but *that* had to do with my second leaving as well. the infamous move to ‘extras’ when TSS was a silly move, I think we can all agree on that. started to seem like they wanted more namecards and less dinner guests - the community vibe (same one that built the wiki? half of the forum? one’s that greated us around the world with open arms?)
Hank was always supportive of anything that worked, so doubt it’s him. all signs point to management, but who knows? I wasn’t there, so can only speculate.
didn’t know about the CC/HanBan/paid sub happenings - I mean, this sucks, sure, but I know they need to make money from it. their business model was never what I had a problem with, it was just the 2 things:
1. the refusal to notify Frank, and in the end claiming ‘they forgot about him’
2. taking the creative/artistic out of the mix - which was what made it happen.
sigh.
December 30th, 2008 at 03:38
Hello again! Frank Fradella back again!
First of all, I’m really interested in everyone’s thoughts on this. I’ve been reading comments here, on CPod’s forums and elsewhere and I’m surprised to see such varying opinions. And, hey, it’s FINE if people think both shows sucked. You can’t hit everything with the same hammer. My approach was designed for a broad appeal to beginners. I always imagined that the feedback we’d receive after the first few episodes would help us gear the style and content. We’d adapt.
I’ve also given some though to Aric’s departure from ChinesePod, both its tragedy and its necessity.
I truly think that ChinesePod needed Aric Queen during their fledgling early days. I also fully believe that they needed him to go, even if he hadn’t left on his own. Sooner or later, it was always going to end like this.
I liken it to the barbaric, axe-wielding warrior you hire to help clear your lands of marauders. You need him to fend off the wolves and invaders. You need someone who can do what he does. It’s not a skill that everyone possesses. But once the lands have been made safe and the walls go up, nobody wants him and his blood-soaked furs stinking up the joint. It’s a bit ungrateful, but it also does him the back-handed favor of letting him go find new lands to conquer.
Aric, and others like him, are not pablum. He’s a strong cup of coffee. You don’t like him? Don’t drink the coffee. But if you want something else in your cup, you either have to go find it or you have to go make it. If you choose the latter, I think you’ll find a healthier respect for people who make their lives by being creative. It’s not an easy life. Not by any stretch. But lord knows there’s never a shortage of skulls to split.
December 30th, 2008 at 08:42
Well, despite being called nasty names (and having done no such thing in return), and at the same time being told I’m the one engaging in pointless angry banter, I stand by my statement.
Whining like this is the reason companies are reluctant to let individuals pitch ideas. It’s simply too easy for someone to pitch something that is either already on the roadmap, would organically have shown up on the roadmap, or is simply similar to an existing idea. If that pitcher is someone like Aric, they will think they are entitled to badmouth the company and demand a cut, regardless of whether it’s justifiable. Hell, 10 people might have pitched a similar idea to ChinesePod.
When you pitch an incremental “idea” like this, you are pitching your execution and your services, not your idea. If Aric’s services were what CP wanted, they would have retained him.
BTW, I have no affiliation with CP other than being a subscriber.
December 30th, 2008 at 08:49
Alex N - you’re a Shanghaiist commenter first off. and who, in China, *isn’t* a ChinesePod subscriber?
this isn’t about what I pitched to them - in fact, I never have pitched anything to them, as I was lucky enough to have them give the green-light to the majority of things cooked up there.
I’m going to leave it at that - save the pointless self-victimizing for that other site.
December 30th, 2008 at 08:56
Alex N - I think you may be a bit confused here, mate. Aric didn’t make the pitch, I did. I’m not complaining about anything and, in fact, have defended ChinesePod at every turn. Aric’s objections are his own, but as a friend who sees a friend standing up for him when he perceived a wrong, I appreciate it. Aric has stated his concerns pretty clearly. It’s not a legal issue. It was a moral issue. I’ve been friends with the folks at ChinesePod for a long time. I spent nearly two years working for them as their Newbie blogger. What he reacted to (if I may speak for him here) was that this is not the way you treat friends.
ChinesePod was always going to make its way into video eventually. At the time I made the pitch, I knew what I was doing in that arena and they didn’t. I offered to come on board to help. They passed. The show I proposed was merely an example of what could be done. I didn’t and don’t lay any claim to it.
Do I wish that they’d given me a head’s-up or a tip of the hat? You bet. But that has everything to do with our long-standing relationship and absolutely nothing to do with legalities or ownership.
December 30th, 2008 at 09:25
If you want to say that’s not how you treat friends, fine. It’s kind of whiny in my opinion but it’s a subjective judgment. It’s also a bit tasteless (and unlikely to keep friends) to publicly rant in this way when your friends don’t invite you to a party. However the blog post says that CP “fucking stole” the idea - that to me translates to an allegation of plagiarism or copyright infringement.
And why am I being tarred for reading Shanghaiist? I don’t know much about you, but call me a “Shanghaiist commenter” as your opening argument does not win much respect. You obviously read it or you would have no basis to judge it. I found out about your blog post there - so what? I have tons of blogs in my reader and I’d be willing to be you have Shanghaiist in yours. I have nothing to do with your jealous rivalry with Shanghaiist or ChinesePod. You’re playing the victim here because you got a high traffic site linking to you and you don’t like what people think or perhaps are embarrassed by your post but don’t want to back down.
Starting to agree with the commenter who said “Your blog is the same toxic blend of self-pity and delusions of grandeur.”
Anyway, I don’t really care. I’m just a Shanghaiist commenter.
As for why both shows sucked, read about the history of Sesame Street.
December 30th, 2008 at 09:31
if you don’t care then stop commenting - we have already established (both myself and others) what this post is about and why it happened.
you’re bringing up other things for the sake of bringing them up.
fuck off to another blog.
*please*
December 30th, 2008 at 09:53
Yes, it clearly happened because of your charming personality. Anyone looking for an English teacher?
December 30th, 2008 at 10:35
To quote Alex: “…it’s kind of whiny in my opinion…”
Then, to quote Alex again: “Well, despite being called nasty names (and having done no such thing in return), and at the same time being told I’m the one engaging in pointless angry banter, I stand by my statement”
Now quoting Alex with the same quote, but this time with reference to this second quote which refers to him: “…it’s kind of whiny in my opinion…”
Now to quote another line of Alex: “And why am I being tarred for reading Shanghaiist? I don’t know much about you, but call me a “Shanghaiist commenter” as your opening argument does not win much respect.”
And yes, you guessed it: “…it’s kind of whiny in my opinion…”
You clearly only read what you want to read here Alex - so I hope this reads well for you - seeing as they are all YOUR own words!
December 30th, 2008 at 12:07
Who’s this guy Alex N and what’s with the circular argument? What’s “synonym = homonym” supposed to mean, since they’re not equal at all?
Does he really think his comments are even slightly clever?
Does he have a “get in the last word” complex?
Are all his comments always this “whiny”?
Is this the usual spiel for Shanghaiist commentators?
Sheesh, now I remember why I steered clear of the expat crowd when I lived over there…
December 30th, 2008 at 15:23
yup - thus the ‘fuck off nicely’ request. one quick look at shanghaiist will tell you why. another angry white guy in China.
December 31st, 2008 at 04:12
Geez, I’m an angry white guy? I didn’t even express any anger, nor am I angry, despite being unfairly insulted for click through from the wrong site, called a douche, and told to fuck off by the very guy who called me the angry guy. I’m just here because I’m chuckling at the delusional people I encounter every time I stumble into the realms of blog comments. I find it amusing.
“synonym = homonym” was a correction. I’m surprised neither of you could have deduced that from the context.
Happy New Year. My amusement with you all will soon pass.
December 31st, 2008 at 05:56
Dude, you’ve been seriously confusing who’s ranting and who got shafted from the very start. Do you even know what we’re talking about?
January 2nd, 2009 at 22:33
Happy new year! I also found this site from shanghaiist..after watching both videos. They are similar and different in a lot of ways.. umm I think it’s a gray area, I’m not sure if there is another simple way to teach the radicals as it were shown on both videos. What really sucks is Amber leaving cpod
January 3rd, 2009 at 00:19
不是吗。。。
January 3rd, 2009 at 00:22
我同意
January 12th, 2009 at 11:53
I realize I’m a little late here but here goes.
Aric, you make a good point about the similarities between the videos and the names. John and Frank have proposed an alternative explanation for what happened, which I wont reproduce here.
However, I will point out that if John and Chinesepod did deliberately steal Frank’s idea, then they are idiots. To think that you could get away with stealing your friend’s idea in today’s gossipy internet age is almost unthinkable. How could you possibly produce a weekly show without without getting lambasted by Frank, the CP community of users, and the blogosphere?
Now, I’m a CP user but have never worked with any of the people there so can’t vouch for their intelligence. But you have, so I will ask you - are John and CP management complete idiots?
I’m not sure how you can hold your position without believing they are morons.
May 13th, 2009 at 15:07
Aric, I don’t see the similiarites between the pilot show and what John subsequently came up with. Sorry, I don’t see it.
What doe you mean by “Shanghai Exile?” It was time for you to leave Shanghai, it had gotten stale for you, and your time there was over. You could’ve going back there and faced the music, but since you didn’t, it was time for you to move on. You don’t really know why the Police came for you.
ChinesePod had passed you by. All of the suits there, have gotten rich and they seek new ways to obtain revenue. They took away your original intro-jingle and replaced all of their subsequent lessons without it. They still use your voice for some of the lessons, at the end. I hope that you get royalities for your voice.
You need to get over your time in Shanghai and move on. It’s all water under the bridge. Get on with your life in the States and move on.
May 14th, 2009 at 09:45
you seem to take a lot of interest in my life, MacBooker.